[ieatatsonic]

I looked at ORKAL's Hydrocity video and saw a questionable glitch in which he goes over the walls with knuckles, jumps, and skips almost the entire level. You'll know what I mean if you watch it.
But yeah, I dunno what to say about the LR glitch. It doesn't quite "modify" the game, since it just tries to run the PAL version. I still think that it's reasonable to ban it, though.

[Selphos]

I think what Thorn means is that even from the get-go this glitch doesn't work.

Also, this is probably a redundant question, but would the reverse of that rule (i.e. PAL running in NTSC) also be disallowed? Yes, I am aware that that would be a disadvantage.

[Brian]

Just a simple rule: Slowing down the game purposely by any means is not allowed. Also Thorn, transforming into Super/Hyper sonic does not have anything to do with any TA you do after the glitch being executed, you can't use them in a TA but you can use them in a stage and then just play another stage without them. But I think it'll ruin the game if people could use it to do speedruns, I'm totally against this glitch being allowed here.

[Muzozavr]

To Thorn:
First of all, I'm not trying to make this glitch allowable. I'm just trying to make sure that no one tries to fit it under OLD rules because that would be illogical. And if there's no logic, you can't reliably follow the rules and being sure you didn't break any by accident.

"from one zone has never affected the other"
Do Sonic Adventure powerups count? Sure, everyone already has every single one of them, but strictly speaking, you get a powerup in one zone and carry the ability over to the next.



About Lava Reef 2 and Death Egg 2:
The boss areas take the TIME from the PREVIOUS "zone". (program-wise I mean)

If you use a Super/Hyper form in the non-boss area, it INVALIDATES said time, because without using the super/hyper form it'd be a different time.

In this case, you enter a different zone and the timer starts anew. That NEW time cannot be invalidated unless you turn super again. REGARDLESS of whether Super/Hyper forms were used in activating the glitch, the new time will be exactly the same. The only thing that directly influences that time is the slowdown advantage.

Super/Hyper clause doesn't work.



What seems really interesting is that everyone tries to ban it using the current rules, which don't work. Why not just make a new rule against that glitch? Wouldn't that be so much easier?

Brian_pso's rule seems good to me.

[Parax]

honestly if it is even questionable whether something fits under a current rule it's better to make a new one. the rules are meant to be clear and easy to understand. it's not like the rules page is horribly difficult to update or has some sort of space limitation.

[Muzozavr]

honestly if it is even questionable whether something fits under a current rule it's better to make a new one. the rules are meant to be clear and easy to understand. it's not like the rules page is horribly difficult to update or has some sort of space limitation.

QFT. QFsomuchT.

[Thorn]

So here's what I don't get... after I posted saying "here's what somebody would have to make this glitch legal", everybody became defensive and said "what, nobody wants this to be legal, stfu". So why is this topic still growing? If there's no debate here, then stop trying to make new points, grab a site admin by the hair, pull hard, and say, "Ban this now." All I'm seeing is rewordings of the same rule, and given that there's only one known instance of this glitch happening, I'd think wording a rule against it would be pretty easy. We can deal with similar situations when the time arises.

General Rule:
"You may not play NTSC games using PAL settings, or vice versa."

Hey, that solves the Sonic Triple Trouble problem too! Wow, that was easy!

[Parax]

Thorn, the so-called debate isn't really about allow/disallow, it's about how to ban it because for some reason several people are trying to fit this under current rules... also yeah I proposed a rule along those lines earlier so that would probably work well.

[Thorn]

Well, since the NTSC/PAL rule was going to be implemented anyway due to a circumstance in another game, it's already being banned by that rule even if you implemented yet another rule for it. Being doubly banned doesn't make it more illegal, so I don't see why we're trying to make a rule specifically for this glitch.

[MrSparkle]

For clarification? Does this slowdown really equal PAL, so much that mentioning PAL also mentions this glitch, and others potentially found in the future?

[Muzozavr]

Apparently it does. Changing the country fixes the slowdown/graphical errors.

[Parax]

Well, since the NTSC/PAL rule was going to be implemented anyway due to a circumstance in another game, it's already being banned by that rule even if you implemented yet another rule for it. Being doubly banned doesn't make it more illegal, so I don't see why we're trying to make a rule specifically for this glitch.

There's nothing already in the rules that bans it, regardless of what is going to be added. Thus why it's being discussed. Derailing the thread into a "why are you guys talking about this" discussion isn't any better than what was being discussed before.

[Luxray]

Well, since the NTSC/PAL rule was going to be implemented anyway due to a circumstance in another game, it's already being banned by that rule even if you implemented yet another rule for it. Being doubly banned doesn't make it more illegal, so I don't see why we're trying to make a rule specifically for this glitch.

There's nothing already in the rules that bans it, regardless of what is going to be added. Thus why it's being discussed. Derailing the thread into a "why are you guys talking about this" discussion isn't any better than what was being discussed before.

Make a rule, enforce it, lock the topic. We're done here.

[P.P.A.]

Why is this getting banned whereas Sonic R's OOB glitch isn't? Both are glitches that heavily alter the way the games are played but still require skill to pull off and still allow for competition even if it's rape of the gameplay.

[Parax]

There is actually far less room for competition, not to mention the Sonic R glitch is pulled off within the same run that you get your stat in, which is another thing that differentiates it from this glitch. I really don't understand how you can compare slowing the game down to a crawl to going out of bounds to skip laps in Sonic R, the R glitches are completely irrelevant and do not need to be discussed here.

[P.P.A.]

>:O!!!

[SonicAD]

Apparently it does. Changing the country fixes the slowdown/graphical errors.

No, that means that it doesn't equal PAL. It means it's trying to run in PAL but can't because it's running on an NTSC system. The slowdown doesn't exist when playing the game in normal PAL. I suppose it's trying to run at PAL speed in NTSC, which means it's running much slower than either.

[Thorn]

Well, since the NTSC/PAL rule was going to be implemented anyway due to a circumstance in another game, it's already being banned by that rule even if you implemented yet another rule for it. Being doubly banned doesn't make it more illegal, so I don't see why we're trying to make a rule specifically for this glitch.

There's nothing already in the rules that bans it, regardless of what is going to be added. Thus why it's being discussed. Derailing the thread into a "why are you guys talking about this" discussion isn't any better than what was being discussed before.

Make a rule, enforce it, lock the topic. We're done here.

This. Proposing a second rule doesn't mean that it's going to get banned any more quickly, it just means that your new rule goes at the back of the queue of "things TSC has been putting off", and it's not getting special treatment to bump it to the front. Bugging the admins to put up a rule already on the table (like the PAL rule with Triple Trouble that can be extended to this) can be done in a couple of months, but making yet another rule could make it more like a year before it's added. This is why I bug somebody about the updated Constitution once or twice a week instead of just moving on to another site project.

SonicAD posted something about it not being PAL yet trying to run in PAL while I was typing this. Thus I propose a rewording to

General Rule:
NTSC games must run in NTSC mode and only on NTSC consoles, and likewise for PAL.

[FuzZerd]

so does the same thing happen if I stick the the PAL version of the game in my NTSC genesis?

[GerbilSoft]

The problem is related to changing the region setting after the game has already initialized. Sonic 3 does have a region lock, but it's easily bypassed; once it's bypassed, it will correctly initialize settings based on console region. This glitch apparently overwrites those settings in RAM.